Curse

lustnlood · Mar 26, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

[Interrupt/Spell conditioning Elite skills :

Air of disechantment
Arcane Languor
Enchanter's conundrum
Migrane
Power Block
Power Flux
Power leech
Psychic Distraction
Psychic instability
Simple Thievary
Stolen Speed
Tease

Pressure skills (useless but oh well... Some elites are uselss for other classes too) :

Vision of Regret
Signet of Midnight
Recurring Insecurity
Panic
Extend Conditions
Crippling Anguish
Fevered Dreams
Ineptitude

Basically useless in Pve and some in PvP too :

Echo
Energy Drain
Expel Hexes
Hex Eater Vortex
Illusionary Weaponry
Keystone Signet
Lyssa's Aura
Mantra of Recall
Vision of Regret
Symbols of inspiration
Shatter Storm

Can be used well and effectively (sort of) in PvE :

Energy Surge
Mantra of Recovery (in some cases)

Can be used very effectively in PvP :

Psychic Distraction
Power Block (in some cases)
Fevered Dreams (in specific groups)
Expel Hexes (why use a mesmer for something that requires 0 attribute points to use?)

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First off I would like to clearly state that I am more than proud to be called a Guild Wars player.

There is one thing though.... I have been playing mesmer from the very beginning of Guild wars, so I have seen it grow and evolve in all its aspects. (And i have to say that ANet has done a darn good job to make it one of the top tier games around)

What about mesmers? I mean every class has grown, become more powerful and competitive in comparison to the other professions. Necromancer being the most multi tasking class in the game. With each new update and expansion, the classes have grown to be more powerful and fun to play; but what about us mesmers?

Now, I don't really fancy complaining but pls ANet open your eyes on this one. True you gave the mesmers fast casting which is wooh... i can't say what an awsome attribute that is, but come on.. your gonna leave us with using flare and meteor shower for PvE just because we shoot matches faster than elementalists?

Energy surge was the breakthrough in mesmer elites for PvE, but how strong and effective can it be if it has a recharge of 20 seconds to go with it? Some might call it overpowered since it hit for 96 dmg with 12 dom magic which cannot be defended against; but i say how long will the guy be able to use it (this also goes for its non elite copy energy burn).... energy is bound to run out quickly if the guy is also using skills... and no, aneurysm is not as powerful and one had hoped for it to be. Also, Energy surge is an elite, so then why does it do the exact thing as energy burn which is not an elite?

A small and considerable change might be: energy surge – casting time 2, recharge 8, energy 8-10 so as to make it better than the normal energy burn with exactly the same attributes as the elite. Another tip might be changing wastrel’s worry to 2 seconds instead of 3. I mean let’s face the facts; how many monsters are you going to cast diversion or shame or any other same skill on in order to have wastrel’s or the other skill work. The same goes for PvP. Taking 2 skills out of 8 to either deal 60+ dmg or let their recharge hit +40 seconds is quite uncommonsensual.

I can't keep writing on every skill because this would take until tomorrow to read but please ANet pls reconsider the skill list you gave us to work with... no offense but looking deeply into it one can call it rubbish compared to other skill lists of other players, even looking at it from a damage dealing/ pressure point of view : and no conjure phantasm and conjure nightmare will not cut it.

One might ask : Why are you talking now? After 3 and a half years of Guild Wars gaming? I don't know. Maybe i'm just tired of banging my head against my monitor because of the rage accumulating, making mesmers look more and more of losers than anything else, to the point where there are small sects, if you may, that attempt to encourage mesmers not to give up on playing them because they are not as worthless as they appear to be... but in reality... how well can they really compete with the other classes?

How long has it been now? 5 years? After 5 years please fix mesmers. Make us able to compete with the other classes. Help me enjoy using actual mesmer skills to pve and make the class good for something apart from interrupting in PvP.

From the text describing mesmers in the Guild Wars : Nightfall Manuscripts book, mesmers are described as :

masterful manipulators, bending reality to their will. With illusion, inspiration and domination magic, they subvert the energy of their rivals, counter spells cast by their enemies and disrupt their foes. The Mesmer works equally well as a damage dealer and support character.

Doesn't that sound scary to you? YES it does... it pictures mesmers as if they were people capable of taking you and playing around with your head,taking you and shoving you into one of those mirror houses where your reflection is stretched and played around with. Well, the reality is totally opposite.. all they can do is conjure phantasm and conjue nightmare to turn your world around.

I think people are getting the point so im going to stop here for now before i get a panic attack 8D. But please ANet fix mesmers up. Give us an edge over other professions. Make us useful and recognizable as a good class.

Pyro maniac · Mar 26, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Cry of Pain is god in PvE. too bad no one uses it.

dicecube · Mar 26, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

i like echo, i wouldn't consider it useless in PvE

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Mar 26, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Cry of Pain is god in PvE. too bad no one uses it.

I use it... Almost every mesmer i know does...

[12]

Kattar · Mar 26, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz

I use it... Almost every mesmer i know does...

[12]

QFT, check any suggested bar in Campfire, it's on there.

Edit: Oh, we're in Campfire now. Lol.

Painbringer · Mar 26, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Ok I think I get your point changes need to be made, but what is A-net to do? How can they make a change in the game that will make players change there opinions? Skill changes? Yes tweaks are needed and many elites are useless and could be changed but all classes have them.

Personally I luv playing the mesmer and I guess I have settled with the nomadic anti-social life of playing by myself in PVE

I really hope they keep the mesmer in GW2 it is one of the most challenging classes to play in GW. This also is what keeps me playing it over and over and over. What a challange

Just for fun Quote - RA PVP experience "Hey the mesmer is melee attacking with a sword what ^&*^*(& noob. (Last man standing after match I replied I am the noob that just pwnd you! Next )

Yep I am the mesmer running IW in RA all the time racking up points hope to see you there!

Edit= Cry of Pain is one of the best skills out there

Celestial_Kitsune · Mar 26, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

But please ANet fix mesmers up. Give us an edge over other professions. Make us useful and recognizable as a good class.

You provided a perfect categorization into useful and useless skills :P

Unfortunately, you missed the point of mesmer profession - it is all about fashion. :P

Mesmers are great in PvP and fine in PvE. Ask not to change a mesmer, ask to change PvE. We'll see if Anet can do it in GW2.

Moloch Vein · Mar 26, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

The changes you suggest would overpower the mesmer skills for PvP.

To be perfectly honest a mesmer is still a better straight nuker for hard HM areas than an elementalist.

Nah, you're not going to be able to achieve N level DPS on your spells in a good team setup. No other caster will. But it doesn't mean you don't have a place. People use elementalists for all the wrong reasons in PUGs.

lustnlood · Mar 26, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

don't get me wrong... i am addictd to mesmers... but come on... do you not agree with me that mesmers need to be given that edge over all other classes :

war : great armor not too bad dmg
ele : dont get me started on dmg
Derv : omg pwnage
paragons : i hate t see a team of these against me
necros : omg wtf?
ranger : hehe good for everything ranger they are
ritualist : these seriously need changes
assassin : good god... these things are fiesty
monk : lets get a few k's today shall we?
mesmer : um... ooook ... lets see if we can make a sexy build... omg im so limited in choice... NOOOO!!!

you get my point?

Moloch Vein · Mar 26, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

ele : dont get me started on dmg

Are you talking about PvP? Because if you're talking about PvE, please do get started.

Pyro maniac · Mar 26, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Nah, you're not going to be able to achieve Physical level DPS on your spells in a good team setup. No caster will. But it doesn't mean you don't have a place. People use elementalists for all the wrong reasons in PUGs.

fixed .

about cry of pain, too bad it was the only way to make a mesmer really viable in PvE. the signet of illusion summoners aren't worth it imo

Moloch Vein · Mar 26, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

fixed

This "let's suck up to the physicals" attitude is pretty amusing, to say the least.

Exercise 1: How much damage will a physical character do with his sword compared to one cast of Spiteful Spirit into a mob of PvE monsters?

Exercise 2: Take 4 physical damage dealers. Add 1 N with Barbs and Mark Of Pain. Which of the characters will do the most damage?

Oh, and clearly I was talking about casters. After all, I talked about "spells."

Kattar · Mar 26, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

don't get me wrong... i am addictd to mesmers... but come on... do you not agree with me that mesmers need to be given that edge over all other classes

No, no class should "have the edge" over any other class. Play any class 1v1 and you will own them. You do have the edge in that you can ruin anything anyone else wants to do if you know how to play the class correctly. But that's all. It's finesse.

The problem is PvE. The entire system is messed up. This has been a topic of discussion for a long time.

Tyla · Mar 26, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

don't get me wrong... i am addictd to mesmers... but come on... do you not agree with me that mesmers need to be given that edge over all other classes :

war : great armor not too bad dmg Not too bad? These deal more damage than the majority of the other classes -- Dervish comes to mind.
ele : dont get me started on dmg Affected by armour. In HM your Elementalist won't be doing much.
Derv : omg pwnage They're quite sexy on damage, yes. And AoM = godmode.
paragons : i hate t see a team of these against me They're imba ftw.
necros : omg wtf? The only true good thing about them is the broken energy management in PvE, and Curses -- Minion Bomber aswell.
ranger : hehe good for everything ranger they are Rangers > All
ritualist : these seriously need changes [skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill] "Orly?"
assassin : good god... these things are fiesty
monk : lets get a few k's today shall we?
mesmer : um... ooook ... lets see if we can make a sexy build... omg im so limited in choice... NOOOO!!! They're still good, and PvE is easy

you get my point?

I get your point, but Elementalists are affected by armour. Paragons, Rangers, Warriors, Dervs, Assasins aren't.
Plus Warriors deal the strongest raw damage in the game, and they have strong options of Deep Wound.

Mesmers are weak in PvE, but they're still playable.

lustnlood · Mar 26, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

i'm talking about pve.. pvp mesmers are excellent at what they do

and if pve for mesmers has been a topic that is greatly discussed and nothign has ever been done... what are we waiting for? can't we sign something so anet will recognise our trouble? or is it too hard to do that... somethign like that is bound to get the attention of the guild wars team

Tyla · Mar 26, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

No...you're not.....
If you looked I didn't mention anything in PvP there.

lustnlood · Mar 26, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

so... if you were a leader of a party getting rdy to go out to make a massacre in pve.. would you pick a mesmer to interrupt fireballs or an ele or a dervish or necro to get the dmg up?

answer truthfully

Lishy · Mar 26, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I actually agree with what your saying.The buff to clumsiness was awesome, but we need more skills like that!
And I don't want to see people saying "Z0MG USE [insert PvE only skill here], I R NOT READ THREAD Z0MG!" because ALL professions should be useful without pve skill.Besides.What happens if you only have Prophecies?Then your SCREWED!

/signed

First impressions of a mesmer can really turn off someone until from guild wars because of how difficult they are to manage in pve.

Tyla · Mar 26, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

so... if you were a leader of a party getting rdy to go out to make a massacre in pve.. would you pick a mesmer to interrupt fireballs or an ele or a dervish or necro to get the dmg up?

answer truthfully

[skill]broad head arrow[/skill]
Or maybe a Ranger?

@Kain -- That was actually a nerf (to Sineptude). It just made it more playable in PvE.

Kattar · Mar 26, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

and if pve for mesmers has been a topic that is greatly discussed and nothign has ever been done... what are we waiting for? can't we sign something so anet will recognise our trouble? or is it too hard to do that... somethign like that is bound to get the attention of the guild wars team

Cuz they don't listen to us. We've tried. Plus, if it messes with PvP, then they won't do it. Most people have given up try to be idealistic enough to believe anything else. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, PvE is the problem. And without a serious redesign, it isn't going to get fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lustnlood

so... if you were a leader of a party getting rdy to go out to make a massacre in pve.. would you pick a mesmer to interrupt fireballs or an ele or a dervish or necro to get the dmg up?

answer truthfully

Yes, 90% of PLs won't take a mesmer. And if they do, and you're not running the build they want, they kick you. Period.

H/H is ftw for that reason.